I understand your point of view, but I can’t agree with it completely. Some of the best teachers I’ve observed through the years have been new teachers, and some of the worst have been teachers with decades of experience.
Experience alone is not what makes a good teacher. Sometimes experience can turn a good teacher into a bad one. I’ve seen that happen several times, and I haven’t really seen a bad teacher become good. Time in the job for some teachers is nothing more than just taking the paycheck.
Urban districts don’t even try to retain teachers. I taught full time 2021-2022 just off Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia. I had such a bad experience that I left and never came back to full time. Now I sub I good schools though still very poor areas and I only go to charters. I would have been an experienced teacher by now but the conditions were so dangerous that I could not stay in
At a glance two issues: I think you overestimate the number of children having outside tutors at schools in more privileged parts of town. You also say nothing about the differences in discipline and absenteeism in under performing schools versus they’re more “privileged” counterparts. These elements introduce a lot of of variation in instruction level that is especially challenging to new teachers. It’s also what causes such burnout in “more experienced” teachers.
As someone who consults families one on one about schools, I can say with confidence that over 90% have their kids in some kind of academic enrichment.
Yes, but you were consulting people who reach out to you meaning that the population that seeks your care is a different population than just people in those schools. It makes 90% not indicative of all the people in those schools, but of the people who seek out special accommodation.
You greatly overestimate traditional training. I have never learned less in my life. A first year teacher will be a first year teacher no matter what the training.
There isn't a single corporation assigning teachers here. There are individual school districts hiring teachers for where they have openings. The turnover is highest in the most struggling schools, so they have the most job openings. Experienced teachers don't apply to those jobs. They aren't even applying for jobs. The ones who are are new grads, and they are fine with accepting those contracts. Do you think they'd say no to a great school accepting them? No, but they just don't get those jobs.
The problem here is TURNOVER, not hiring new teachers. Ask that school district what measures they have to retain teachers over the years. What are they doing to help the teachers grow in their position and become better teachers? What are they doing to ensure teachers don't burn out in 3-5 years? The biggest issue here is these districts also have huge turnover in ADMIN. So they can quite easily have a superintendent or principal who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, and everything goes downhill from there.
Read the book Authentic Carino, which talks about a struggling majority-latino charter school in California. The average tenure of a teacher in that school was 2-5 years. It was all idealistic young people from top to bottom, and they created a startuppy-culty environment where they were creating a culture of overwork and being overinvolved in the lives of students. It didn't seem to really help discipline or language acquisition. That's basically what happens even in these public schools. Most young people join these charter school type efforts because they get a big title and lots of responsibility at a relatively young age. When they think they have enough on their resume to get an actually good position that won't drive them to a lifetime of high blood pressure and diabetes, they skip out.
I've spoken to many teachers who taught over a decade at KIPP schools and they all retired from burnout, and they all blame management. Like it or not, life at these schools is not a lifelong endeavor. If you work on hiring people who CAN cut it for years there, that's good. But there are relatively few people willing to tough it out in that environment, so this is what you get.
Real question: Is your son going to tough it out for 15 years in that school?
I looked up the program, and.... lady, your son is a STUDENT TEACHER. He is supervised and supported more closely than a credentialed teacher. He's basically doing a teaching internship. If he felt he wasn't qualified to be in a classroom, he should have opted for a path that involves much more hand-holding, like I am doing.
I love your premise (& your last sentence: “…they should hone their skills on those who need them the least, so that they might become good enough to work with those who require them the most). I agree with you in theory. But I disagree in reality. NYC public school kids are lucky to have your son as a teacher. My daughter is in a public school on the UES that’s considered privileged, not one of the neediest. And yet she too has had teachers who are not only very inexperienced but also disinterested. The fact that your son is so capable & passionate—and that the NYC public school system has placed him among needy students—is a huge plus. This doesn’t worry me; this gives me hope.
I understand your point of view, but I can’t agree with it completely. Some of the best teachers I’ve observed through the years have been new teachers, and some of the worst have been teachers with decades of experience.
Experience alone is not what makes a good teacher. Sometimes experience can turn a good teacher into a bad one. I’ve seen that happen several times, and I haven’t really seen a bad teacher become good. Time in the job for some teachers is nothing more than just taking the paycheck.
Urban districts don’t even try to retain teachers. I taught full time 2021-2022 just off Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia. I had such a bad experience that I left and never came back to full time. Now I sub I good schools though still very poor areas and I only go to charters. I would have been an experienced teacher by now but the conditions were so dangerous that I could not stay in
At a glance two issues: I think you overestimate the number of children having outside tutors at schools in more privileged parts of town. You also say nothing about the differences in discipline and absenteeism in under performing schools versus they’re more “privileged” counterparts. These elements introduce a lot of of variation in instruction level that is especially challenging to new teachers. It’s also what causes such burnout in “more experienced” teachers.
As someone who consults families one on one about schools, I can say with confidence that over 90% have their kids in some kind of academic enrichment.
Yes, but you were consulting people who reach out to you meaning that the population that seeks your care is a different population than just people in those schools. It makes 90% not indicative of all the people in those schools, but of the people who seek out special accommodation.
You greatly overestimate traditional training. I have never learned less in my life. A first year teacher will be a first year teacher no matter what the training.
It's not about the training to me, it's about the experience in classroom.
There isn't a single corporation assigning teachers here. There are individual school districts hiring teachers for where they have openings. The turnover is highest in the most struggling schools, so they have the most job openings. Experienced teachers don't apply to those jobs. They aren't even applying for jobs. The ones who are are new grads, and they are fine with accepting those contracts. Do you think they'd say no to a great school accepting them? No, but they just don't get those jobs.
The problem here is TURNOVER, not hiring new teachers. Ask that school district what measures they have to retain teachers over the years. What are they doing to help the teachers grow in their position and become better teachers? What are they doing to ensure teachers don't burn out in 3-5 years? The biggest issue here is these districts also have huge turnover in ADMIN. So they can quite easily have a superintendent or principal who doesn't know what the fuck they are doing, and everything goes downhill from there.
Read the book Authentic Carino, which talks about a struggling majority-latino charter school in California. The average tenure of a teacher in that school was 2-5 years. It was all idealistic young people from top to bottom, and they created a startuppy-culty environment where they were creating a culture of overwork and being overinvolved in the lives of students. It didn't seem to really help discipline or language acquisition. That's basically what happens even in these public schools. Most young people join these charter school type efforts because they get a big title and lots of responsibility at a relatively young age. When they think they have enough on their resume to get an actually good position that won't drive them to a lifetime of high blood pressure and diabetes, they skip out.
I've spoken to many teachers who taught over a decade at KIPP schools and they all retired from burnout, and they all blame management. Like it or not, life at these schools is not a lifelong endeavor. If you work on hiring people who CAN cut it for years there, that's good. But there are relatively few people willing to tough it out in that environment, so this is what you get.
Real question: Is your son going to tough it out for 15 years in that school?
NYC Teaching Fellows like my son are limited in schools where they can apply to work.
I looked up the program, and.... lady, your son is a STUDENT TEACHER. He is supervised and supported more closely than a credentialed teacher. He's basically doing a teaching internship. If he felt he wasn't qualified to be in a classroom, he should have opted for a path that involves much more hand-holding, like I am doing.
Why is that? Is he not credentialed?
I love your premise (& your last sentence: “…they should hone their skills on those who need them the least, so that they might become good enough to work with those who require them the most). I agree with you in theory. But I disagree in reality. NYC public school kids are lucky to have your son as a teacher. My daughter is in a public school on the UES that’s considered privileged, not one of the neediest. And yet she too has had teachers who are not only very inexperienced but also disinterested. The fact that your son is so capable & passionate—and that the NYC public school system has placed him among needy students—is a huge plus. This doesn’t worry me; this gives me hope.
Thank you so much for your kind words!!!